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  • Deacon Dan Wright serves the Diocese of Austin, Texas. His work outside the parish is as a special education teacher serving students with significant cognitive disabilities.

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  • Family activities, spirituality, liturgy, Christian apologetics, social justice topics, special education issues, and promoting the peace and unity of the human family.
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June 10, 2008

Comments

Carol

I'm presuming (I really don't know) that most denominations read the Bible--I just know that all the Protestant kids around me seemed to. I'm always amazed, then, that they could skip over a crucial part clearly stated. Not only Christ's saying we must eat His flesh and drink His blood (Eucharist) if we would have life within us, but like for those who think baptism is optional. What did they make of Jesus Himself being baptized by John the Baptist, and of What came directly to Jesus from that? I don't know how anyone can rationalize away something like that, especially by those who may take the Bible's every line quite literally.

Deacon DW

Yes, Carol, I too think that most denominations read the bible. Undoubtedly, evangelical Protestants read it; however, the interpretation of the bible--for all of us--depends on our theological point of reference. For many, if not most, evangelicals interpretation must agree with the principals of Protestantism. In this case it is the erroneous principal sola fide that causes the problem.

The argument goes something like this-
If one is saved entirely by faith, then no human act (work) can be required in order to insure salvation. Thus, in the strict sense of merit, baptism (being a human action or work) cannot be a condition to being saved since nothing aside from faith alone is sufficient to bring about salvation.

Of course the fallacy lies in the faulty premise that the action of the human being is the formal or originating cause of grace in the sacrament. I do not think that the issue is that Protestant theology is incapable so much of granting God the ability to be the formal actor in baptism, but rather that the view sola fide, when taken to its logical limit, necessarily rules out human cooperation of any kind. Interestingly, and not surprisingly, Luther had real problems with the Book of James.

Carol

Ah, I see. Well, that confusion makes sense--akin to how Mr. Spock tried to make sense of the universe(s?) with mere logic.

Thank you.

Deacon DW

Actually, logic is one of the best tools at the disposal of anyone who attempts to debate. It helps us to formulate our positions in a way that makes sense, and it directs us to the fallacies inherent in the arguments of our opponents. You can't really argue against logic.

Like anything else, logic has to be learned. A good place to start is here.

Carol

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by logic, but debate is a human pastime. Christ didn't debate. (Neither did His mom.) And logic never converted anyone, least of all the Orthodox (and Luther). The scribes and Pharisees and lawyers used logic honed to an excruciating degree, and ultimately ended up looking for ways to kill a Saviour they couldn't beat. Guys debate because they honestly believe one or the other succeeds in making more sense, a la political debates. Women, however, discuss, because we (unlike Mr. Spock) have to look at everything from 14 different human vantage points and yet there has to be a clear resolution; if one can work logic into it, then she's ahead of her game, but may soon have to start dyeing her hair.

We know that the Lord's own apostles wanted to go line by line on some things--one can imagine the conversations that went on around the fire while Jesus caught a catnap, what with practical blue collar guys and a tax collector and a contemplative all bunking together for months or years --but Jesus shut down that murmuring among themselves every time. He needed to make them all fishers of men asap.

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